For a man on crutches — the right leg he broke on a skiing trip is in a red anti-thrombosis stocking but not a cast — Manuel Neuer looks relaxed when The Athletic meets him at Lake Tegernsee, an hour to the south of Munich.
But it’s soon apparent the last few weeks have left a mark.
Germany were knocked out in the group stage at the Qatar World Cup after the OneLove armband affair that personally affected him as the team’s captain. A few days later, he had that skiing accident. Bayern Munich were forced to buy Yann Sommer for €8million (£7.1m; $8.7m) plus add-ons from Borussia Monchengladbach, and goalkeeping coach Toni Tapalovic, who had worked with Neuer since his arrival in Munich in 2011, was fired amid media allegations of a difficult relationship with head coach Julian Nagelsmann.
There is a lot to talk about.
How are you?
I’m fine. My leg is OK. I’ve had a few injuries that put me out of action for a long time and forced me to take some risks for the club in the past. It’s different in this case, because I can see the way back for me clearly. I’m not fumbling around in the dark. My leg, the healing process, rehab, coming back: I know how it will all work.
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Are you confident there’ll be no lasting damage and that you can play without problems next season?
There will be no lasting damage. At first, it was a shock but I’ve had experience with bad injuries and quickly felt quite optimistic again. In 2018, after breaking my metatarsal, many said it was over for me, that I would never come back. In 2022, I had a shoulder injury and knee surgery, a single movement is enough (to get injured). But there’s also a psychological aspect.
There’s a mental toll to getting hurt?
No. But some other things really knocked the stuffing out of me — that was worse than what happened to me physically.
Before we talk about these other things — how did this accident happen?
This story doesn’t begin here, but in Qatar.
Starting with the German public’s negativity towards the competition?
We had relatively little support from back home. If I compare that to the energy we experienced in 2010… that was insane. There was more focus on political issues than we had ever witnessed. As soon as we arrived from our pre-World Cup training camp in Oman, we had a millstone around our necks. In hindsight, we could have perhaps done with a bit more support. That way we could have focused on sport, on our game against Japan.
Should you have had more support from the German FA?
FIFA’s decision to ban the OneLove armband came as a surprise. A clear message would have helped us, in retrospect, we might have done with a bit more support.
The timing of FIFA’s decision was a “catastrophe”, you said after the Japan game.
We had to think about what we do next. We talked a lot to the people in charge. Ahead of the tournament, critics said the OneLove armband was a worthless gesture, that we were hiding behind it. After the FIFA ban, it suddenly became the most important symbol in world football. It felt like no matter what choice you made, it was the wrong one. We were under a lot of pressure. It was all a bit much for us.
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After the ban on the armband, you could have simply done nothing. Would it have been wiser to leave out the mouth-covering gesture?
We are mature, responsible players and stand up for our values. That’s an attitude we’ve always represented. We had the feeling that FIFA were silencing us. We wanted to make a statement with that gesture and then focus on the games.
Did you succeed in doing so?
Yes. We discussed (the gesture) in the players’ council meeting and made a decision. And that was it. After that, we put our attention to football. It wasn’t as if we only dealt with that specific topic. It was a normal meeting. We got off to a great start against Japan and were in control of the first half. On the pitch, nobody had that topic in their minds. We felt, ‘If this keeps going on like this, we’ll win 2-0 or 3-0.’
Afterwards, it was said that not every player was happy with the protest.
Some may have liked the idea more, others less. We’ve all known each other for a long time. Growing up in the Ruhr area, a very diverse region, I am the first to see things differently and understand other views. No one was pushed, no one was forced. We decided together.
You say that it was dealt with quickly, but at the same time, it was a burden. Is not that a contradiction?
As the German national team, we were in the spotlight, all by ourselves, because people expected a reaction. You don’t want to make a wrong decision. A few European nations had agreed to wear the armband, but we were on our own as far as that gesture was concerned. Nobody else did something like that.
The response was mostly positive in the West, but the gesture met with rejection in the Arab world.
It was all about FIFA, it was in no way directed against the Arab world or Islam. We have Muslim players in our ranks, there is huge respect for them. We live and breathe diversity, it’s a natural state of affairs for us. To repeat: I’m from Gelsenkirchen. The entire Ruhr area was economically dependent on Polish, Turkish and Italian immigrants, it was only thanks to them that we had a prosperous life. I’m grateful that I grew up like that.
In retrospect, why did Germany fail to make it out of the group phase?
Because of the second half of the Japan game. That was unspeakably bad. The Spain game was very good, one of the best of the World Cup, people said. Costa Rica was OK. In the end, we were eliminated on goal difference.
Was there also a lack of defensive balance?
That’s nothing new. Defending as a group has been difficult for us for a long time. You saw it in the goals we conceded at the tournament and also in the friendly game we played before going Doha. Oman should have been ahead against us. That was alarming.
After Germany’s early exit, some blamed the team hotel. It was apparently too luxurious; there was too much of a holiday vibe.
After every tournament, people find a narrative that fits the outcome. Everyone always says how great the 2014 World Cup was. In truth, we had quite a few problems in most games and our bungalows weren’t finished yet. I had a rain leak in mine. From six o’clock in the morning, animals were screaming, canaries or monkeys. It was like being in the jungle. Nobody wants to hear that. I personally slept better in Vatutinki (Germany’s Moscow base camp for 2018).
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How would you rate your own performances in Qatar?
I always critique myself. We analysed everything, (DFB goalkeeping coach) Andreas Kronenberg and I, we’re very honest. But he didn’t put the blame on me. I always look in the mirror and ask myself, “Did you give everything, did you make the right decisions?” And you can’t always answer “yes”. There’s always an argument you could have done things differently in terms of goals conceded. But unjustified criticism, after watching a slow-motion replay twenty times… I take to that very badly.
When people said I was responsible for Germany’s failure, that hit me; in a way, it really hurt me. I thought: ‘Wow! If that’s the reason, then I know what’s going on.’ I don’t know if it was a campaign against me, but it was going that way. What hurt me more than anything, however, was the sporting outcome, our elimination. We had failed in 2018 and now we failed again. I’m the biggest team player. For me, the worst thing was that we failed together, as a team.
Then you flew back home.
We were supposed to go on vacation to Iceland on December 19, we couldn’t get away before then. On the first day, I sat here at home and felt like shit. I couldn’t sit still, I didn’t want to see the games at first, either. I couldn’t take it. So I went on a 10km run on the first day and again on the second. And I noticed: that gave me motivation. Which goalkeeper runs 10km two days in a row? Only an idiot would do that. I don’t know anyone like that. I used to have the nickname ‘Hyper’ when I was younger, because I was always on the go. Cycling, tennis, I’m someone who heads outdoors for sports and needs to be in touch with nature. That’s how I find balance.
Emotionally, the whole thing was difficult for me, also for my psyche. I realised: ‘This is therapy for me.’ Others talk to psychologists or with a confidant, I went for a run. On the third day, I went for a long hike, and on the fourth on a ski tour with my closest friends. I’ve been skiing for over 30 years. It’s not a holiday activity for me, it’s like going to the bakery. We went on our local mountain, close to here. You trek up and go down the slope. We call it “Schwabenrunde” (Swabian round) because you don’t pay for the ski lift.
And that’s when it happened.
There was something under the snow that stopped me. I was doing maybe 10 or 12km/h. This wasn’t like going to (Austrian ski party locations such as) Ischgl or Solden, where you’ll have a few apricot schnapps in the hut and then race down the hill. This was our local mountain. It was a training exercise, a reset for the body and mind. I’ve gone down this piste countless times, even by myself. It’s child’s play, usually.
What went through your mind when you felt your leg was broken?
First of all, you hope it’s not severe. I didn’t pray, but I lied to myself: ‘It’s not so bad, it’s not a big thing.’ Some are better at dealing with pain, others who have never had such experiences may find it harder. Because I had played games in a lot of pain at Bayern, my threshold is quite high. I was fully conscious the whole time. My friends were all surprised (about my reaction) when it became apparent how bad it was. They knew something was wrong, but not to that magnitude.
Were you afraid your career could be over?
No. When it turned out it was operable, I was confident everything would be fine. I know a little bit about medicine now. What floors you is telling people around you what happened, that you need surgery. I was very emotional, it really got to me. You’re on the phone to them and the other person says, “Don’t take the piss out of me, where are you? Are there people talking in the background?” “Yes, these are the doctors.” And then I couldn’t talk anymore. I had a lump in my throat and the tears were falling. I just muttered, “Call the team doctor.” It kills me when I hurt the people around me. I can’t handle that.
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Was there a feeling of, “I have let the team and the club down”? Or, “They have to do without me now”?
Yes. Not immediately after getting into A&E, but after surgery. I put up a picture in our WhatsApp group and apologised. I also called the people in charge, apologised to them and said I’m sorry. I’m not a coward who goes into hiding. I explained everything to them, including the background.
How did the Bayern bosses react?
They were in shock. Nobody could say anything at first. Maybe that’s why they were a little reserved towards me. I could understand that. After the World Cup, it wasn’t easy for the club to deal with the disappointment of the players either.
Did you have a guilty conscience?
In the sense that it created a lot of work for the people who run the club and that I might have harmed the team, yes. I didn’t want that. I’m the happiest person when (deputy goalkeeper) Sven Ulreich does well, as he always has done when he stood in for me. When Yann was brought in, I told the bosses I had no problem at all with that. I think it’s good we have two great goalkeepers. I’m a team player. It’s important to me what happens at Bayern. I look at the overall picture I don’t just think of me and my pain and so on. I have a vocation, I have a job. I’m an important part of the team and also an important part of the club and I want the club and the team to be as successful as possible. That’s the most important thing to me.
Oliver Kahn said he was amazed by your “reflected” reaction towards Sommer’s transfer.
I’ve known Yann for a long time and know that he’s a good guy — and a good goalkeeper. The club found a great solution. It was important to me that there’s someone there and that I don’t have to worry. Sven Ulreich would have done an outstanding job as well, though. But for me, that was the natural reaction. That’s who I am. We all benefit when the team and the team club are successful. Even me, sitting at home with crutches.
The transfer of Sommer was one thing. But would it be right to say the dismissal of your long-time coach Toni Tapalovic was completely different?
That blow hit me extremely hard.
Who told you?
I was told by the club officials. It came out of nowhere. For Toni too. I didn’t understand that at all. It really knocked me down.
You are close friends as well as long-term collaborators. That makes this case all the more difficult.
Toni was always a team player with us, everyone saw it that way. He wasn’t working for me for eleven and a half years, but for the entire goalkeeper group, for the coaching staff and for the club. We were always able to separate work and private life. I understand that it might sound like I’m not being objective or not believable, but I can really tell the difference. For me, that was a blow — when I was already down on the ground. I felt like my heart was being ripped out. It was the most brutal thing I’ve experienced in my career. And I’ve experienced a lot.
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In 2011, for example, when you moved from Schalke to Munich: Schalke supporters cursed you and some Bayern ultras didn’t want you.
That was brutal, too. I’ve grown a thick skin. But what happened now is on a whole other level. Everyone in our goalkeeper group was torn to pieces. People burst into tears.
Tears, really?
I think that says it all. We goalkeepers are a team within a team, but Toni was popular with the whole squad.
Thomas Muller publicly bid him a fond farewell and emphasised his part in the team’s success.
Thomas was already there when Toni and I arrived when Jupp Heynckes was in charge. Toni had had his job interview at Heynckes’ house. What was important to Jupp? How someone fits into the team, how they were as a person. More than 30 trophies and years of experience in professional football later, Toni hasn’t changed.
What were you told was the reason for Tapalovic’s dismissal?
There was no reason that I could comprehend. Things were said that I don’t agree with. Nothing I heard would have ruled out the possibility of people talking to each other and sorting things out.
Do you think this was linked to (former Bayern keeper) Alexander Nubel’s claim that Tapalovic had not contacted him since he moved to Monaco (on loan in June 2021)?
I cannot imagine that. Tapa was responsible for Nubel’s transfer to Bayern in 2020: he had seen Alex at Schalke at a time when no other club had really noticed him and recommended him to Bayern immediately. He worked for Alex as well as for me, for Sven Ulreich and (former Bayern keeper) Christian Fruchtl. In all these years I’ve never heard any coach say anything negative about Tony. Ask Pep Guardiola and his crew, or Carlo (Ancelotti) or Niko (Kovac).
Reports also suggested Tapalovic was fired because he allegedly passed on information from the coaching staff to you, and that it found its way into the changing room because of that.
No. One hundred per cent no. Toni never did that, under any coach.
Nagelsmann said he and Tapalovic never properly worked together. How do you explain that?
I can’t say anything about that. I’m not part of the coaching team.
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What was in your thoughts when that happened? Did you think Tapalovic’s dismissal was meant to hurt you?
I thought about all sorts of things, also in terms of my future at the club. But the Bayern officials assured me that wasn’t the case. I said that I didn’t agree with the reasons put forward and I felt I was heard. Oliver Kahn wasn’t just talking about my reaction to Yann Sommer arriving, but also about the bigger picture. I think he liked the fact that I was strong, even though — I have to say it again — I was caught off guard and it hit me badly. It’s the club’s decision, I have to accept it.
What does this story leave you with?
A big disappointment. This is about the human side of things, the way a valued employee was treated. At Bayern Munich, we want to be different — a family. And then something happens that I have never experienced before. It’s a sad thing for everyone: for the club, for Tapa, the staff and all of the goalkeepers, including me. Nevertheless, I want to say: I’m a human being on one hand, and I’m a professional on the other.
What does that mean for your relationship with Julian Nagelsmann?
It means I talk things through with Julian and that I work with him in a professional manner. We were very straight with each other. He knows where I stand. I fight for the club’s well-being and I will never be an obstacle. I am a team player, and as captain, I have special responsibilities.
(Former West Germany goalkeeper) Toni Schumacher recommended that you should focus on playing for Bayern in the final years of your career and retire from the national team. What do you make of that?
Everyone can make recommendations. I have to see how I will come back. When the time comes, I’ll look in the mirror and tell myself the truth, as always. If I don’t perform, I’ll vacate my position. But don’t expect that to happen.
As a player, is it possible to be truly honest with yourself when you’ve spent years conquering your doubts?
Well, it doesn’t help if I lie to myself. I’m ambitious, I have targets, but if I harm the team and the club, then I can’t be happy. It wasn’t a bad year leading up to the World Cup. The fact people have doubts about me is due to their high expectations. I didn’t change my game, my throw or my processes, and that’s probably the problem. People have become used to me clearing the ball like a sweeper-keeper. They don’t see that it would otherwise have been a huge chance to score for the forward.
Do you still enjoy football?
A: Definitely. Sure, I’m an oldie now (36). I look back and remember playing with players such as Ivica Olic and Daniel van Buyten at Bayern. But that’s the nice thing: there are always new players, it’s always a new team — and I’m still here. Although I get the feeling some people are fed up with seeing the old players.
Former national team director Oliver Bierhoff is perhaps an example of that. He had to go (after the World Cup) because he had been around for so long. Or did he do something wrong in your opinion?
I know Oliver always wanted what’s best for the team.
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Doesn’t everyone want that?
There are also those who want what’s best for themselves. That’s why I said it.
Is there an agreement with the national coach on how things will continue in the national team?
Hansi Flick got in touch, we are in contact. I’m also talking to Andreas Kronenberg, my coach in the national team. Hansi certainly assumes I will return, and I will do everything for that. I’m sure I’ll be able to do it.
Let’s say you’re fully fit in summer. By then, Sommer has proven himself in the Bayern goal, and Marc-Andre ter Stegen or Kevin Trapp have done well in the national team. What happens? You would fight to get your place back, and the coaches decide?
Whoever is best will play. If I want to play, I have to be the best. It’s always been like that.
